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I know, but we are speaking about animals here born into the slaughterhouse business. They don't have that choice because all they know is fear from the beginning.

You're right. I agree with you on that point, but to me, I would say it makes our species more animalistic for stripping away the choice of other animals. This goes back to my quote on Ishmael that was meant to be summarized through a quote from wikipedia, without man's surroundings, where would man be?

It truely is a great book worthy of anyone's times.

You don't work in the 'slaughterhouse' business, you've probably never lived on or worked for a farm. You aren't in a position to be telling anyone how the animals feel or are treated.

There is a perfectly legitimate argument to be made from your viewpoint in this thread, stop shitting it up by showing your ignorance.

Dvergar /
Quisling

Fair enough, I do not work on a farm, and as I said at the beginning the actions of one company or it's employee's does not explain the rest of the companies action's.

However, this has turned into a philosophical discussion as of late. A discussion with regards to what defines an animal and makes humans more distinctive than animals. These are the points I am currently challenging and while some of them do tie back to the original post, it would seem that, the conversation has drastically changed, and you're right to interject as you had done so.

You are correct. I do not live on a farm, have not worked at a farm. So what right do I have to judge the animals being raised on the farm in whatever fashion they are being raised in?

Well, it goes back to the whole video I posted at the beginning which led us to here. While I should not judge every company by one companies choice in mass production of food or it's employees, it does still raise the fact that the concern should be there, atleast for me, to better understand how food is brought from the slaughter houses to my fridge / freezer. This in turn has led me to challenge the viewpoint of the person I am conversing with to understand why there is a division between humans and animals, when truthfully, we are all in the same boat. It's just that we gained control of the situation first, and that in doing so, it would seem irresponsible to neglect the feelings of other living creatures for the sake of our own stomachs, atleast if there were better alternatives to what I have seen in this video, but I would welcome anyone to post information regarding foods and companies worth purchasing from / for because at this point, this is a new learning experience for me, while at the same time, I am challenging the readers to possibly see that there is more to the world than just us.

If you want to find out more, go find out more.

Have you grown up in an incredibly sheltered family?

Have you ever seen a nature show? Fuck, if anything we do a much better job for the animals we eat, they're not out in the world trying to survive and freaking out overtime they heard a noise in the bush, they know they're safe on the farm and are treated better than they would be in the wild.

That video only means that butterball has some bad employees (the only thing related to the higher-ups in that video was the rule that people can't go under the trucks, which is to prevent someone from being run over, and yes it's more important that people don't get run over than a chicken). You keep saying you understand that it doesn't mean everyone does this, but then you go on to base your assumptions about the entire food industry on this video.



You're not challenging anyone because we're not fucking morons. I don't see how you are just now getting to this point, you're not a 14 year old girl. No one is in favor of abusing animals.

Dvergar /
Quisling

Well, I am finding out more. By conversing with you and others, I have realized my initial impressions were mistaken and that I shouldn't have based my feelings about every company because butterball employee's had done what was shown in the video. In doing so, I have come to several realizations.

These are my realizations after having found out more through the discussions we've been having. Firstly, I never though about the lifestyle of the animals we consume prior to that video, and seeing the video allowed me the opportunity to think about it. Secondly, I don't like animal abuse not the support of it by getting others to do it for recreational or any other reason. Thirdly, I have realized that I don't spend a whole lot of time researching local or chain markets for the way these products get to the shelves and I feel the propensity to do so. Fourthly, I did try to challenge other posters to see the way I feel, and in doing so, I learned more about the decisions they have made with regards to their choices in the consumption of the food they eat. Lastly, I've discovered that there is the possibility that we are possibly helping these animals to an extent to live a life better than one they would have if they had been on their own, as proposed by you.

Everything else has been a little side tracked, based from my curiosity but yeah...

All of these things are helping me realize the way that I view the animals that I eat. I had never before considered anything with regards to the animals that I have eaten, and I am sure many people don't put much consideration into it either until it creeps up on them, the way it did for me the other day. So yes, perhaps I have been living a sheltered or ignorant life. This thread allows me the opportunity to break the walls I have been blindly behind.

Paddway, I think you should stop complaining. I'll be honest I didn't even read past the first post, and knew you'd bitch the whole post. I'm guessing I'm probably right.

This reminds me of a time when I got stuck talking to a vegan because they were friends with a woman I was dating. They said some of the same stupid stuff. My favorite was, "Well, if you had any idea how animals were slaughtered, you probably wouldn't feel that way." They were positively mortified when I told them what kind of community I grew up in and my experiences with hog butchering. Good times, good times...

Given that slaughter jobs are tedious low-wage hells, it's not surprising that you're going to find some of the kids you remember pulling the wings off of flies filling them. Concept's pretty much the same on a bigger scale. I'm sure those companies crack down on that sort of behavior when it's caught, but unless you have a camera on someone 24-7, you're going to miss a lot.

Best not to think about it. They're going to end up being killed an eaten regardless.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

When I was in college I had a pretty good discussion with a guy who was thinking about going from vegetarian to vegan. It slowly started going down-hill and ended with his declaration that we need to grow seaweed and algae to feed all the animals on earth, that way lions won't attack prey in the wild, they're be fed by us.

Dvergar /
Quisling

Pretty sure if you walked up to a lion with a package of seaweed and algae, the lion truly would be fed with you.

Paddy if you truly are interested in certain hot topic agricultural issues I can direct you to some good articles/documentaries. Some of them are subscription based so if you don't have the subscription (from school or otherwise) I could use the send e-mail option with my own sub. Send me a PM and I can give you a list and if needed exchange email information so you can read the subscription materials.

Note that what I'm talking about isn't necessarily only about cruelty to chickens but many different agricultural issues as well. GMO foods, factory farming etc.

Totally did this when I was younger. I was pretty much a prick to innocent animals until about late middle school.

I would most definitely be interested. I will shoot you a message through the board if possible. Gonna figure that out now.