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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:57 am  
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Jubbergun wrote:
I guess so, since it's apparent that the state of science is such that you can lie, fudge your figures, deny skeptical parties any sort of review of your work, and attempt to besmirch the reputation parties presenting opposing views and still be judged blameless of any wrongdoing.

Just because your "sources" don't stand up under even the rudimentary scrutiny of a half-educated forklift artiste doesn't mean they're being "attacked," it just means they fucking suck, and you need better sources.

No one is "laughing off" your sources. I think I was fairly concise about what was wrong with the one I reviewed. If anyone here is laughing anything off, it's you, since you couldn't even be bothered to read my objections. For pity's fucking sake, I presented how the summary on that report was utter bullshit, and your response is to suggest I need to read some more summaries? If that's your answer, you don't need to concern yourself with how any of the rest of us are dealing with reality because you're sure as hell not in touch with it.

The reality here is that there is still debate about this subject in the scientific community, and that debate would probably be more pronounced if not for individuals like Professor Jones who attempt to professionally damage people who do so much as allow dissenting views to be presented.

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I wasn't referring to the reports on the CRU emails. I was referring to sources on the actual science, such as the IPCC report. You don't seem to have looked into those at all. There is indeed some debate in the scientific community (although I doubt the subjects being debated are what you imagine), but to discuss it rationally you have to be willing to actually look at the science, not continually cast aspersions on the sources while avoiding the evidence itself.


Laelia Komi Anomalocaris
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 7:56 am  
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What specific bits of science should us skeptics look at? Can you link or cite them in a specific report... maybe even dumb them down so I could understand them?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:48 pm  
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Eturnalshift wrote:
What specific bits of science should us skeptics look at? Can you link or cite them in a specific report... maybe even dumb them down so I could understand them?


http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/syr/en/contents.html

Start with this.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:21 pm  
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Laelia wrote:
Eturnalshift wrote:
What specific bits of science should us skeptics look at? Can you link or cite them in a specific report... maybe even dumb them down so I could understand them?


http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/syr/en/contents.html

Start with this.


Yes, we should start with the source that's tainted by the touch of corruption we were just discussing. That makes perfect sense.

Just make sure you actually do more than read the summary, guys. Those things cannot be trusted.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:28 pm  
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Jubbergun wrote:
It's easier to laugh off sources than deal with reality.


Hmm...


Laelia Komi Anomalocaris
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:37 pm  
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Laelia,

You mentioned that your examiners asked you questions on Global Warming. What kind of questions did they asked, how could you have answered, and based on that answer could they have failed you on your exam?
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:55 pm  
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Eturnalshift wrote:
Laelia,

You mentioned that your examiners asked you questions on Global Warming. What kind of questions did they asked, how could you have answered, and based on that answer could they have failed you on your exam?


The exam was a couple years ago, so I don't remember the phrasing. Basically they were asking about the absolute fundamentals - am I aware of the topic, what evidence do we have that it's occurring, what kind of impacts do we expect. I wouldn't have failed for an incorrect answer on that part alone, although if I was entirely unaware of the topic it would have reflected badly on me. I don't think they even particularly cared how accurate my answer was, just that I was able to discuss the topic intelligently (which is how many questions on the oral part of the exam are set up). It was part of a series of general questions on various hot topics in science (they also asked for my views on GMOs and whether I was aware of some recent discoveries that were in the news at the time). They want to make sure candidates are not exclusively focussed on their field and have a wider interest and knowledge in science.


Laelia Komi Anomalocaris
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 02, 2010 8:30 pm  
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http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/12/02/ocean.acidification.threat.cancun/index.html?hpt=T2

Hurr durr CNN is a biased source.

Hurr durr global warming is fake liberal propaganda.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 1:55 am  
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1335798/Global-warming-halted-Thats-happened-warmest-year-record.html

Earlier this year, a paper by Michael Mann - for years a leading light in the IPCC, and the author of the infamous 'hockey stick graph' showing flat temperatures for 2,000 years until the recent dizzying increase - made an extraordinary admission: that, as his critics had always claimed, there had indeed been a ' medieval warm period' around 1000 AD, when the world may well have been hotter than it is now.

Other research is beginning to show that cyclical changes in water vapour - a much more powerful greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide - may account for much of the 20th Century warming.

Even Phil Jones, the CRU director at the centre of last year's 'Climategate' leaked email scandal, was forced to admit in a littlenoticed BBC online interview that there has been 'no statistically significant warming' since 1995.


...

...

I'm not going to add anything to that.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 09, 2010 11:37 pm  
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/g ... te-science


Laelia Komi Anomalocaris
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:25 pm  
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Somehow I don't think I should take at all seriously the professional grudges of a rival working at a competing paper who uses his column to champion the "global warming" movement (a quick google search shows the majority of his columns are related to the environment and many spent on defending individuals like Professor Jones) while referring to those who don't agree with his chosen set of opinions as "deniers." Perhaps individuals like Mr. Monbiot would deserve serious consideration if their main attack against their detractors weren't a badly veiled attempt at smearing them by semantically linking them with antisemitic crackpots.
It is even harder to take seriously when the second paragraph outlines the problems with journalism, a bit of indemnification against any mistakes (purposely or accidentally) later/previously made in his own writing disguised as some charitable "hey, mistakes can happen" that Mr. Monbiot grants himself before attempting to pick apart Mr. Rose's work without extending those same protections to his intended victim.
I'd be interested in seeing a response from Mr. Rose concerning Mr. Monbiot's assertions, but since Mr. Rose is a journalist and not, like Mr. Monbiot, a pundit, that isn't likely to happen.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 10, 2010 4:49 pm  
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Jubbergun wrote:
Somehow I don't think I should take at all seriously the professional grudges of a rival working at a competing paper who uses his column to champion the "global warming" movement (a quick google search shows the majority of his columns are related to the environment and many spent on defending individuals like Professor Jones) while referring to those who don't agree with his chosen set of opinions as "deniers." Perhaps individuals like Mr. Monbiot would deserve serious consideration if their main attack against their detractors weren't a badly veiled attempt at smearing them by semantically linking them with antisemitic crackpots.
It is even harder to take seriously when the second paragraph outlines the problems with journalism, a bit of indemnification against any mistakes (purposely or accidentally) later/previously made in his own writing disguised as some charitable "hey, mistakes can happen" that Mr. Monbiot grants himself before attempting to pick apart Mr. Rose's work without extending those same protections to his intended victim.
I'd be interested in seeing a response from Mr. Rose concerning Mr. Monbiot's assertions, but since Mr. Rose is a journalist and not, like Mr. Monbiot, a pundit, that isn't likely to happen.


Jubbergun wrote:
It's easier to laugh off sources than deal with reality.


How quickly we forget. Do you have any actual disagreements with the points made in the Guardian article?


Laelia Komi Anomalocaris
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 2:52 pm  
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I didn't bother reading it because I know who and what Mr. Monbiot is. I have found his back-and-forths with Lord Monckton amusing in the past, but I don't take the self-appointed PR man for Church of the Warming Globe seriously enough to justify dignifying his tripe by reading it. I got a little farther than "journalism is hard because..." when I realized the only person that bit of fluff was granting grace to was the author, and stopped reading.

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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 3:40 pm  
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Jubbergun wrote:
I didn't bother reading it

lol


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:14 pm  
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I went to a lecture given by Lord Monckton at Rutgers on why global warming is a myth (a friend of mine who was one of like 4 people in the Campus Conservatives told me he'd buy a round of drinks if I came and I had nothing to do anyway) which had a grand total of like 20 people attending. Let me bluntly say that he has no scientific background whatsoever, and the bulk of his argument was "global warming is a myth spurred on my liberals who are just trying to make tons of money and hate everyone trying to use energy irresponsibly." It was very nicely argued with lots of charts, graphs, and statistics, none of which meant a goddamn thing because they were all taken out of context or intentionally cut short before contradictory results could be seen.

I'm wary of anyone who argues on the basis that their opposition is doing bad things for the sake of being contrary, because that has no basis in rationality and even a businessman (like he is) should recognize that, regardless of whether they understand the science.

(yes, I did more than attend peace rallies and send articles to our ridiculously liberal satirical newspaper. Try not to faint)


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