Does Illegal = Morally Incorrect?

rikkilake · **Posted:** Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:04 am

i had mason-jar moonshine once in durham :>

also, with the black market point: the legalization of popular drugs, although it would not eliminate the black market and wont stop violence against children just as much as a facebook campaign wont, what it does is bring the drug trade out of the shadows and will reduce significantly the violence associated with it. also, it frees up a lot of law enforcement money to be better spent and will empty a lot of prison cells, too.

dek · **Posted:** Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:26 am

Paddywack wrote:

They would be immoral to (a majority of people) during our times. Not then to those it mattered to till beliefs changed through time.

Not true. Sure, morality changes over time, but to take the easy example, freeing black people from slavery was considered a highly moral thing to do for many many people across the states where slavery was legal, and freeing slaves was highly illegal.

Sure, there were also people who didn't have a problem with slavery, but that just further disproves the theory that there is a hard correlation between law and morality.

Boredalt · **Posted:** Fri Dec 10, 2010 11:39 am

If you don't like a law, work within the system to change it.

Or, don't. Just break it if you are so inclined, and aren't morally opposed.

But, when you are charged, convicted and imposed the corresponding penalties, you should be confident that you felt so morally against this law that the penalties are worth it.

ignayshus · **Posted:** Fri Dec 10, 2010 12:15 pm

Laws reflect two things: The collective ethical/moral standards of a given society and the will of powerful interests seeking to advantage themselves.

As to the collective standards, policy always lags behind the actual ethos, probably because change is hard and politicians want to keep their jobs.

So should you follow all laws? I don't. Nobody does. Who here has ever driven over the speed limit? Stepped outside a crosswalk? Had sex in a public place? Smoked, drank, attended a rated R movie before they were legally allowed?

The question becomes how does that fit into your philosophy on life?

Pot is illegal because cops, cartels and many politicians want it that way. Cartels get a higher price, cops get more jails and criminality to justify their population and pay, and the politicians get the vote block that comes from a police union's support while claiming to be tough on crime.

But their's no getting around that you are contributing to the demand.

Usdk · **Posted:** Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:06 pm

sex in a public place eh? this demands its own thread.

Mns · **Posted:** Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:13 pm

rikkilake wrote:

also, with the black market point: the legalization of popular drugs, although it would not eliminate the black market and wont stop violence against children just as much as a facebook campaign wont.

I'd disagree. If the government (yes, I said government, since private corporations shouldn't be able to get their hands on the most addictive substances on the planet) can undercut the major drug dealers by enough money where the risk just isn't worth it anymore, I think the amount of drug-related violence would plummet.

Eturnalshift · **Posted:** Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:17 pm

Private companies make the most addictive substances on the planet; cigarettes, alcohol, narcotics, etc. Are you suggesting the government should completely take over these industries and make the products dirt cheap in hopes it'll stop all the violence? Where does this mentality stop?

Paddywack · **Posted:** Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:26 pm

dek wrote:

Paddywack wrote:

They would be immoral to (a majority of people) during our times. Not then to those it mattered to till beliefs changed through time.

Not true. Sure, morality changes over time, but to take the easy example, freeing black people from slavery was considered a highly moral thing to do for many many people across the states where slavery was legal, and freeing slaves was highly illegal.

Sure, there were also people who didn't have a problem with slavery, but that just further disproves the theory that there is a hard correlation between law and morality.

I would disagree. There is a hard correlation between law and morality for the reasons I stated previously. Laws that govern everyone change when morality of different topics change.

To use your example, slavery was okay to a vast majority of people in the south. People who disagreed tried to change the situation by freeing slaves in ways they could. War was made over this as well, and the victor set laws with regards to slavery opposing the idea of it.

Majority of North: Disapproved of slavery
Majority of South: Approved of slavery

A mix of people in both places had their own beliefs as well, and those that were wanting to see a change about this, did so in their own fashion, either by supporting the war efforts within their own entity, opposing the opposite side through what ways they could by banning products and not purchasing products from the opposing sides, and by freeing slaves as you said, which I am sure some people within the south felt the same way as the people of the north.

TL;DR... not everyone has the same belief, but the majority rules in most cases. This majority is the one that makes the laws that governs the rest of the populus till a change is made, which in that case, was war over beliefs of slavery and possibly even more.

Mns · **Posted:** Fri Dec 10, 2010 1:35 pm

Paddywack wrote:

was considered a highly moral thing to do for many many people across the states where slavery was legal

Serious Question: Do you even know what the word "moral" means?

EDIT:

Quote:

Private companies make the most addictive substances on the planet; cigarettes, alcohol, narcotics, etc. Are you suggesting the government should completely take over these industries and make the products dirt cheap in hopes it'll stop all the violence? Where does this mentality stop?

When private companies don't have to be told to not advertise their products to children or put a deluge of chemicals and fillers in their products that are poisonous to people but increase profit.

Also, nicotine is a hell of a lot more different than cocaine, since nicotine doesn't create incredibly violent users/addicts.

Usdk · **Posted:** Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:10 pm

I dont remember the last time someone was killed over a pack of smokes.

I'm not sure barfights count.

Mns · **Posted:** Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:21 pm

Moved that convo to another thread, USD.

Jubbergun · **Posted:** Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:21 pm

I actually think it is wrong for the government to engage in any form of commerce that it denies its citizens the opportunity to engage in, since the government (allegedly) derives its powers from the people. I find it especially troubling when governments monopolize a certain sector (like alcholhol here in VA) on the grounds of 'morality and the public good.' If such substances are morally/socially harmful, why is the government peddling them?

It's actually about money, which is funny since states like WV that have privatized liquor distribution generate more revenues than they did when the state held a monopoly on distribution. If it weren't for the nutty Baptists here in VA, the state probably would have moved in the same direction already.

The government doesn't just create a black market by barring the production/distribution of substances, but also by excessive taxation. NY now apparently has a huge cigarette black market created by people attempting to circumvent the ridiculous taxes the state applies to tobacco sales.

Your Pal,
Jubber

Paddywack · **Posted:** Fri Dec 10, 2010 3:26 pm

Mns wrote:

Paddywack wrote:

was considered a highly moral thing to do for many many people across the states where slavery was legal

Serious Question: Do you even know what the word "moral" means?

Yes. I would go further into detail, but I really don't think you've ready anything anyone's posted here. My opinion is representative of something I believe was true during before the Civil War. I believe they thought slavery was morally fine. Before you ask questions, read a whole post.

From http://www.audioenglish.net/dictionary/moral.htm

Quote:

MORAL
Pronunciation (US):

Dictionary entry overview: What does moral mean?

• MORAL (noun)
The noun MORAL has 1 sense:

1. the significance of a story or event

Familiarity information: MORAL used as a noun is very rare.

• MORAL (adjective)
The adjective MORAL has 5 senses:

1. relating to principles of right and wrong; i.e. to morals or ethics
2. concerned with principles of right and wrong or conforming to standards of behavior and character based on those principles
3. adhering to ethical and moral principles
4. arising from the sense of right and wrong
5. psychological rather than physical or tangible in effect

Familiarity information: MORAL used as an adjective is common.

Dictionary entry details

• MORAL (noun)

Sense 1 moral [BACK TO TOP]

Meaning:

The significance of a story or event

Classified under:

Nouns denoting communicative processes and contents

Synonyms:

moral; lesson

Context example:

the moral of the story is to love thy neighbor

Hypernyms ("moral" is a kind of...):

import; meaning; significance; signification (the message that is intended or expressed or signified)

• MORAL (adjective)

Sense 1 moral [BACK TO TOP]

Meaning:

Relating to principles of right and wrong; i.e. to morals or ethics

Classified under:

Relational adjectives (pertainyms)

Context example:

moral philosophy

Pertainym:

morals (motivation based on ideas of right and wrong)

Sense 2 moral [BACK TO TOP]

Meaning:

Concerned with principles of right and wrong or conforming to standards of behavior and character based on those principles

Context examples:

moral sense / a moral scrutiny / a moral lesson / a moral quandary / moral convictions / a moral life

Similar:

incorrupt (free of corruption or immorality)

righteous (morally justified)

moralistic (narrowly and conventionally moral)

clean; clean-living (morally pure)

chaste (abstaining from unlawful sexual intercourse)

Also:

honorable; honourable (worthy of being honored; entitled to honor and respect)

good (morally admirable)

chaste (morally pure (especially not having experienced sexual intercourse))

righteous (characterized by or proceeding from accepted standards of morality or justice)

virtuous (morally excellent)

Attribute:

morality (concern with the distinction between good and evil or right and wrong; right or good conduct)

Antonym:

amoral (lacking any sense of moral standards or principles)

immoral (deliberately violating accepted principles of right and wrong)

Sense 3 moral [BACK TO TOP]

Meaning:

Adhering to ethical and moral principles

Synonyms:

ethical; moral; honourable; honorable

Context examples:

it seems ethical and right / followed the only honorable course of action / had the moral courage to stand alone

Similar:

right (in conformance with justice or law or morality)

Sense 4 moral [BACK TO TOP]

Meaning:

Arising from the sense of right and wrong

Context example:

a moral obligation

Similar:

conscientious (guided by or in accordance with conscience or sense of right and wrong)

Sense 5 moral [BACK TO TOP]

Meaning:

Psychological rather than physical or tangible in effect

Context examples:

a moral victory / moral support

Similar:

mental (involving the mind or an intellectual process)

Read the 3rd meaning.

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Does Illegal = Morally Incorrect?

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