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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:30 pm  
Malodorous Moron
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Eturnalshift wrote:
Joklem wrote:
I'm an astrophysicist and fuck this debate. It's been beaten to death and it's not worth wasting keystrokes on anymore.

Convince me, then.

I may be wrong, but doesn't the conservation of energy state that energy can't be created or destroyed? How did energy, or matter, exist at the start of the universe... before the big bang? By our own laws it couldn't have been created... but for it to exist, it had to be created at some point through some means - God or something else...

This point alone pulled me from Atheism to Agnosticism because as much as I can't absolutely prove a God exists, I can't absolutely prove a God doesn't exist, either.


I'm an agnostic too.

I'll keep it simple because seriously this shit is tedious. The matter didn't come out of nowhere. Think of the universe as an island in the infinite ocean of space. Space meaning emptiness, beyond our universe is emptiness. Within that emptiness was a "blob" of energy and matter with very, very, very massive density and at an extreme temperature. That blob contained all the matter currently in the universe today, but not in the form of molecules - quarks or smaller than quarks, some physicists refer to it as the "quark soup". Something happened, and it started a chain reaction (call it an explosion, an expansion or the "Big Bang", whatever) that sent the matter in all directions. As the early universe cooled from expansion, molecules (hydrogen and helium first) were allowed to form. Over a vast amount of time, chemical reactions and gravity allowed for more molecules, then for stars and planets to form. Yadda, yadda, yadda. Seriously, there are plenty of good papers on the Big Bang theory all over the internet.

The expansion of the universe can be observed (galaxies moving away from each other), therefore all matter in the universe must have been located at a single point in space at some time. We don't know for sure where it came from, and we probably never will. For all we know, and especially due to the infinite nature of emptiness, what we call "Big Bangs", or universes forming, could be an occurrence more common than we think.

One can safely assume that no deity created the universe in it's current, exact form. It could be possible that intelligence was involved in the design of the mechanisms that made it possible to become the way it is today. But remember that as humans we are limited in our intelligence, and we tend to turn towards fairy shit when faced by the unknown.

P.S. I don't "believe" in theories zealously. The true origin of the universe is unknown, and any scientists who believes in any theory and refuses to accept changes, adjustments or new theories altogether is a complete fool. One thing's for sure: a giant white bearded man in the sky did not create the Earth and it's inhabitants.

Edit: if your prayers are answered, then you are likely schizophrenic. An anti-psychotic such as Seroquel or Zyprexa could help with that.

That is all, g'day.


Last edited by Joklem on Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:38 pm  
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Malodorous Moron
Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2010 7:54 pm
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Usdk wrote:
You can't prove God exists any more than you can prove He doesn't exist.

This is the new chicken or the egg philosophical question that really doesn't have an answer.

Find your own way, let others find theirs.

You can't prove the Invisible Pink Unicorn, but does that mean it doesn't exist? Because it clearly doesn't. It's a ridiculous man-made concept that modern science rejects. Using your logic, I could say anything and have it be true based on such logic.


Bryzette (Retired)
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:40 pm  
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Feckless Fool
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Fuck's sake Dagery, read his post properly. Your last sentence is so goddam retarded.


Laetitia
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:46 pm  
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MegaFaggot 5000
Joined: Mon Aug 27, 2007 11:39 pm
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Azelma wrote:
Joklem wrote:
I'm an astrophysicist and fuck this debate. It's been beaten to death and it's not worth wasting keystrokes on anymore.

Read some shit.


Image

He's not mad, he's Joklem.

And Joklem's a legend.


RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 7:58 pm  
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Feckless Fool
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He seems more manly and masculine now.


Laetitia
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:04 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Wed May 12, 2010 8:41 am
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Mns wrote:
He's not mad, he's Joklem.

And Joklem's a legend.


"Heroes get rememered, but legends never die"


Azelma

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:14 pm  
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Querulous Quidnunc
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Azelma wrote:
Mns wrote:
He's not mad, he's Joklem.

And Joklem's a legend.


"Heroes get rememered, but legends never die"


(2b)||!(2b)?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:14 pm  
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Obama Zombie
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 1:48 pm
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Joklem wrote:
Seriously, there are plenty of good papers on the Big Bang theory all over the internet.

Oh, I know there are. I have a friend who is also an astrophysicist... or maybe he's studying, still... anyways, but he's all space-nerdy. He's given me a lot of reading on the stuff but as he and I had this same discussion we ended up at the origin and I asked, "What created all that", referring to energy (or the quarks), and he said, "There comes a point when a scientist has to accept that there may be a God." By your one comment I assumed you were one of those know-everything Atheists like I used to be. Mah bad. I appreciate how you don't try to explain, nor outright deny, the possibly of a God.

Quote:
How do YOU personally define who or what God is? How do you define the 'act of Creation'?

Hmm... I'd think God to be some 'wavelength' (not a literal wavelength that we can pick up with a radio) that exists in the universe. I'm not sure it would have a consciousness or way to exhibit its will, but I'd like to think it does have some influence in all living things...

Quote:
Do you believe that creation and evolution are mutually exclusive? Can one only exist if the other does not?

As I understand it, evolution doesn't explain the creation of life... it only explains how life changes in species through various things like genetic drift. With that said, regardless of the method for the beginning of life (spontaneously or intelligently created), evolution still has a place. One thing I like asking Creationists who deny Evolution is, "What if evolution is part of God's design? His creations would adapt to a changing world without God redrawing the designs and that's way more intelligent than other intelligent design ideas." Something to that effect, anyways.


Last edited by Eturnalshift on Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:15 pm  
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Feckless Fool
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Reading that in an Obama voice fucking killed me.


Laetitia
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:19 pm  
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Obama Zombie
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Spacehunter wrote:
Reading that in an Obama voice fucking killed me.

Needs moar, "Let me be clear", "Eh", "Um" and quick stuttering at the start of sentences?
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:21 pm  
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Feckless Fool
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I added in the stutters and dramatic pauses. Had to.


Laetitia
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:28 pm  
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Obama Zombie
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Do you real all my posts in Obama's voice?

If so, fuck you Mayo. :cry:

inb4 "I don't read most of your posts"

dick
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:35 pm  
Malodorous Moron
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Quote:
As I understand it, evolution doesn't explain the creation of life... it only explains how life changes in species through various things like genetic drift. With that said, regardless of the method for the beginning of life (spontaneously or intelligently created), evolution still has a place. One thing I like asking Creationists who deny Evolution is, "What if evolution is part of God's design? His creations would adapt to a changing world without God redrawing the designs and that's way more intelligent than other intelligent design ideas." Something to that effect, anyways.


One could also say that intelligence sufficient enough to design the expansion and development of the universe and it's mechanics could have planned the mechanics required for evolution of life within our universe when it can be supported as well.

Personally, I think that everything that happened after the initial spark can be attributed to randomness. When all added together, the theories are sound. It all depends on the accuracy of our model of the universe, and our understanding of it's mechanics, though.

If our existence is the result of purely random events, how fucking epic and amazing is the fact that we're here, able to think and flame each other by sending electrons through cables halfway through the damn globe?


Last edited by Joklem on Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:36 pm  
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Feckless Fool
Joined: Sat May 15, 2010 7:46 am
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Battletard wrote:

What is God?


God is love





















WHAT IS LOVE


I am THE man.
http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee15 ... 171424.jpg

Fantastique wrote:
I love you.
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:37 pm  
Malodorous Moron
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 5:59 pm
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quadtard wrote:
Battletard wrote:

What is God?


God is love





















WHAT IS LOVE


Love is that feeling you get when you're on a plane and you realize that Syd Barrett is the pilot.
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