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It takes something big to realize what people are doing. There were already calls for people being more civil, including Giffords herself (I'm really trying to look for an article, but everything's become awash of the events post-shooting). I'm sure that if people started vandalizing Republican political centers and trying to kill congressmen, there'd be the exact same calls.

I wouldn't say that. When people of a certain political party bring loaded weapons to rallies of the opposite party and after watching tidbits of Beck's show (sure, they were out of context, but they were still frightening) and someone in the party that they rally against ends up getting shot, I made an assumption.

As for me calling people bigoted, I'm not backing down from that. I'm sorry, but people don't get a free pass when they say in the DA/DT thread that "if gay people want to be in the army, they should just stop being gay", even if a congressman gets shot. Also, not to make this personal, but I think you're the last person that should try and call people out for not being civil, especially in political arguments.

I may bash heads, but I never want to actually cause physical harm to anyone. Maybe you should stop trying to force yourself into being a victim because if it was really as bad as you say it is, you wouldn't be on this site.


I never said that was the absolute truth now did I?


What Obama said was wrong, yeah, but I honestly you can't relate the fire being spat out on the Democrat's side and the Republican's side. I'm not forgiving Obama calling Republicans "enemies" once, but Democrats aren't saying that Hungarian Jews who disagree with them collaborated with the Nazis and haven't insinuated mob violence if things don't go their way.


When any of these things happen to Republican candidates, I'll be right there with you. However, while equally condemnable, I don't feel that calling your opponents "enemies" is the same as saying that if people don't vote the way you want them to, they may end up dead.

RETIRED.
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Thats the thing though. It's all just rhetoric. 99% of Americans(and lets face it, a lot of those people are NOT geniuses) know its just a bunch of talk. If someone in that 1% goes off their rocker adn goes through with it, it isn't the responsibility of the idiot on tv running his mouth.


You should not have to cater to the 1%.

Exactly. Catering to fear and the fringe is what gave us useless peepshows at the airports, the patriot act, jack thompson, banned/censored books, at least one war, etc

so how long until this thread dies out and more endless bickering pops up in another thread?

99% is vastly overestimating the intelligence of the American public. If anything the apathy to politics has caused people to be more likely to believe the bullshit. In the southeast, one year after obama was sworn in, less than 50% believed he was born in the US.

Dvergar /
Quisling

The people that are dumb enough to believe that Obama wasn't born in Hawaii despite the evidence in the public record and statements by public officials 1) do not represent 50% of the public anywhere and 2) are not all sequestered in the <insert implied insulting adjective here> south. If anyone is bound to be more likely to believe in bullshit, I'd suggest it's those in our society who are so intolerant of opposing views that they have to make-believe an entire region of the country is a cesspool of undesirables that they can make up fake statistics about in order to make a point on the internet.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

Dvergar /
Quisling

I'm not trying to relate the two, but the whole Westboro Baptist Church idea of picketing funerals of soldiers (I heard that they were also going to picked the funerals of the victims of this attack as well) is also rhetoric. However, that doesn't make it helpful or necessarily a good idea. Sure, you can say whatever you want, but its honestly polarizing our country and making it worse off. As long as people accept the consequences of what they're saying, I'm completely fine with it. Drawing crosshairs on districts and acting like you did nothing wrong when someone on that list got shot (even if the things are entirely coincidental, which is what it's looking like) is ridiculous. Sure, Palin took down the site, but I never heard her say that it was a bad idea and I haven't heard anyone from the right say that they'll back down from the narrative of fear that they're trying to portray.

If you have the free time, I think that the argument that Stewart has with a former Minnesota governor is a pretty good watch.

EDIT:

I live in Cincinnati, which I kind of feel is sort of the border between what people call the Midwest and the South, and I can tell you from experience that something like 90% of the people that I've met down here that have lived down here their entire lives (this includes the entirety of my mother's side of the family) hates black people.

RETIRED.
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Markos Moulitsas fired Research 2000 as the pollster retained by Daily Kos a few weeks ago after R2K fared poorly in "pollster ratings" compiled by FiveThirtyEight's Nate Silver. At the time I wondered whether Markos reacted a bit harshly, since Silver himself admitted, "The absolute difference in the pollster ratings is not very great." In addition, some polling experts had raised questions about Silver's rating system (see also here).

Today Markos published a remarkable analysis of "problems in plain sight" with Research 2000's polling. Three researchers uncovered "extreme anomalies" in certain results and concluded, "We do not know exactly how the weekly R2K results were created, but we are confident they could not accurately describe random polls."

While the investigation didn't look at all of Research 2000 polling conducted for us, fact is I no longer have any confidence in any of it, and neither should anyone else. I ask that all poll tracking sites remove any Research 2000 polls commissioned by us from their databases. I hereby renounce any post we've written based exclusively on Research 2000 polling.--Markos Moulitsas

I suggest that in a country like ours, where our cultural influences are generally drawn from the same television, music, movies, sports, etc., and where there's a McDonalds/Starbucks/Target in every near-identical strip mall from coast-to-coast, that the only reason anyone would accept such a huge statistical difference in one region is because it reinforces their own personal bias. If we took regional titles off that poll and inserted White, Black, Asian, and Hispanic instead, and the results were that skewed to the disadvantage of a particular group, those results would have been questioned on the grounds of racism, as well it should have been.

Your Pal,
Jubber

AKA "The Gun"
AKA "ROFeraL"

World Renowned Mexican Forklift Artiste

I will say this about Obama's birth certificate:

10 bucks says he won't show it because he's listed as "Caucasian."




Yes thats a joke.


I don't "know" Obama was born in hawaii any more than any of the rest of you do. We're all just accepting that he showed the certificate to the proper authorities when he was supposed to, and they found no fault with it. Thats enough for most people, and its more than likely accurate. However, if people want to be skeptical about it(I think it's foolish to focus on his birth circumstances when his politics are so ripe for the plucking but hey) then that's their right. People have been wrong about worse and it really doesn't change anything anyway, now does it?




Most other societies don't have the lobbyists from the pharm companies like we do. Also, certain other societies wait til they're old enough to say, have a pilots liscense before going off the deepend.

Thread split because fuck you.

RETIRED.
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I approve, but fix the title please.

You mean a guy carried a loaded assult rifle? Scary. Did anyone die at that rally because of the mans loaded assault rifle? No. (Were there even bullets in the clip?) Stop trying to pin shit on the few people who legally open-carried because they did nothing wrong. (The article you linked talks about people at a counter-protest someplace near the President's gathering? Those armed individuals were no threat to the President, either, since they didn't try getting in. Contrary to what you think, law abiding gun carrying people aren't all out to kill Democrats.) Anyways, if you want to put blame on someone try putting blame on the guy who actually pulled the trigger and killed all those people and not some map with cross hairs or a couple guys who carried guns at a protest some year and a half ago.


Not sure how a congressman (wat?) getting shot has anything to do with DA/DT... but, don't think I'm citing the DA/DT thread - I'm talking about nearly every political thread you make an appearance in. At some point it turns into you calling everyone else racists, bigots, etc. You'll slander the Right, Tea Party, Conservatives, etc. just because you don't like or agree with them... then the moment one of your own gets shot in the head you turn tail and want to join hands, sing songs and pretend you're above the rhetoric? You're not.

The reason I'm calling you out for wanting civility is because you're often not civil yourself. The difference between you and I is I don't care if the political climate gets better or worse - it's politics... and then there was a crazy that went crazy and shot a couple people.


Do you think Sarah Palin wants to physically harm anyone with a .jpg posted on a website?

Oh, and the cheap shots and loledits (see left and "Eturnalshift hates brown people") aren't specifically targeting anyone, either...


It's a shame when your prejudices put your foot in your mouth, eh?


People like Sarah Palin have had their personal information, like their E-mail accounts, hacked and stolen as an attempt to attack and smear the individuals. During the Bush presidency, the President has been made to look like Hitler many times and people of Bush's cabinet have been racially slandered. Republicans and Tea Partiers are were often called Racists because they didn't agree with the agenda of the half-white President. On election day, a group that supported Obama stood fast outside a voting center with nightsticks as an act to intimidate voters. Democrats, progressives and people in groups like ANSWER have physically attacked Tea Party protesters. The kicker, Republican offices around the country have been shot at and had bricks and rocks thrown through windows during the health care 'debate' era. I say these things because I don't want you thinking the Left is as peace-loving and rhetoric-free as you want people to believe they are. The Left and Right are equally bad with their rhetoric and, as far as we know, neither side is responsible for politically influencing the AZ shooter.

PS: The only reason a President should call an American an enemy is if they're an Enemy of the State - not if they have political differences.

I don't know how many times I've said I'm not putting the blame on Palin. Hell, I'm not even talking about the shooter anymore. Also, I don't see how guns all of a sudden became interpretations. Let's say you were a congressman and I protested outside of your house with a loaded gun, within 30 feet of your family. You wouldn't be worried at all about metaphors and the like, you'd be scared shitless because someone who hates everything you stand for has a loaded gun near you and your family. If Democrats were taking loaded assault weapons to Bush rallies, I feel that there would be a completely different idea being bounced around.

It was an explanation as to why I called people (and why I stick by) calling people what I did. Also, I'll "slander" (slander meaning that I'm making stuff up) people when they start talking about how gay people should stop being gay if they want to serve their country. If people don't want to be called bigots, maybe they shouldn't think that people building a religious community center is an assault on our country or that people should just up and stop being gay.


This is pretty sad, because its the way our country's going. It might get heated, sure, but people shouldn't be bringing loaded weapons and saying that politicians will be chased out of town if they don't vote the right way.


Do you want me to ban you to give your paranoia some actual basis? I've said it again and I'll say it now, you try throwing half the insults you do at me at an admin of any other site and see how long you last. I feel like I'm pretty lenient. Not to mention you can change everything but your title at any time.


Because a gaggle of anonymous hackers and protesters that get picked out for the news are exactly the same as the leadership (Boehner, Gingrich) and figureheads (Palin, Beck, Limbaugh) of the party doing it. This is a ridiculous comparison and you know it. If you want, I can go tit-for-tat and start linking all of the insane posters (one of them with the guy who runs the Tea Party's website calling Obama a nigger).

If you pull this one out, can I start talking about how the Iraq War was just to give kickbacks to Halliburton and some Fahrenheit 9/11 shit about how the Bushes and Bin Ladens are working together? Please.

Give me a break.

Nobody's falling for this "let me grasp at straws and then add a glittering generality at the end of it to get people to agree with me" shtick, especially not me.

I've already addressed your points with actual substance in previous posts and now you're just flailing. This whole diatribe is about how the left is the same as the right when I've never excused the left. If both sides do it, its still a problem. However, you're ridiculous if you can't see that the right has taken it to much more of an extreme.

You already said you don't give a shit that people are getting their offices vandalized and its apparently politics as usual, so I'm just going to stop.

RETIRED.
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