Modern Psychology's a Sham.

Aestu · **Posted:** Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:25 pm

Joklem wrote:

You're 100% right saying that the military is authoritative, however that's because it wouldn't function if every members had an opinion of how things should be run.

The military builds character. Physical and mental endurance. A weak willed person who wishes to join the military wouldn't get past basic training.

During wartime we have conscripted random people and made them into soldiers. That is the point of boot camp. The military is an institution designed to make the weak into the strong through organization, indoctrination and authority.

If what you say is true we could not have raised armies of millions to fight in Korea or Vietnam nor tens of millions during WWII. Instead the military managed to get millions of feeble little people into uniform and shoot weapons.

If what you say is true, soldiers would not have such difficulty facing the true tests of character - making morally correct choices or dealing with the ambiguities of life. How many soldiers have the courage to answer tough questions about what they do? The military mythos is, like every other mythos, a product of weakness.

Aestu · **Posted:** Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:30 pm

ignayshus wrote:

Again you assume that because we didn't keep accurate or reliable records on mental illness in the past or that other countries still do not do it today that it must not exist or have existed.

Burden of proof lies with party making contention. This assumption is integral to psychology but it has scant basis in fact.

Aestu · **Posted:** Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:31 pm

ignayshus wrote:

I also take issue with this.

Which is more plausable?
a) That Americans on the whole are just so much worse at parenting that we have a 4x higher rate of mental illness than the rest of the world.

or is it more likely that

b) Or are we in the US are just more comfortable discussing these problems and spend more resources on identifying and tracking these disorders?

If you're thinking a) consider this:
In the recent WHO study on mental illness, Japan reported a rate of 5.3% for anxiety disorders yet the Japanese consume the most benzodiazepines per person in the world...

Do you not see the fallacy in your reasoning?

Your anecdote supports my reasoning which is that the incidence of psychological afflictions is variable based on cultural factors and not inevitable and immutable.

ignayshus · **Posted:** Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:32 pm

Quote:

Burden of proof lies with party making contention.

It's also integral to your position that other countries around the world don't have the same rate of mental illness, so since you're making the positive conclusion the burden is yours.

Quote:

This assumption is integral to psychology but it has scant basis in fact.

You mean aside from being statistically more likely than countless universities and scientists conspiring to pull the wool over everyone's eyes?

If it's a choice between lazy record keeping and grand conspiracy, I'm going with lazy record keeping.

Quote:

Your anecdote supports my reasoning which is that the incidence of psychological afflictions is variable based on cultural factors and not inevitable and immutable.

Or it supports the more logical conclusion that the Japanese don't like to talk about mental illness within their society.

Joklem · **Posted:** Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:40 pm

ignayshus wrote:

I vote we change the title to Psychiatry is a Sham, because that's what we're debating.

Nobody is debating the value of Psychology except for maybe Aestu, but I think that was because he misread or miscomprehended what Cally wrote.

Actually, it looks like he doesn't even know the difference. Go read his idiocy again.

Psychiatry = a MD specialized in mental illness.
Psychology = the science of mind and behaviour.
Psychologist = a B.A. who applies findings from the field of psychology to therapies.

Quote:

During wartime we have conscripted random people and made them into soldiers. That is the point of boot camp. The military is an institution designed to make the weak into the strong through organization, indoctrination and authority.

If what you say is true we could not have raised armies of millions to fight in Korea or Vietnam nor tens of millions during WWII. Instead the military managed to get millions of feeble little people into uniform and shoot weapons.

If what you say is true, soldiers would not have such difficulty facing the true tests of character - making morally correct choices or dealing with the ambiguities of life. How many soldiers have the courage to answer tough questions about what they do? The military mythos is, like every other mythos, a product of weakness.

Blah blah blah. I'm not even from the same country as yours. Mine only ever conscripted during WW1 and WW2 (also, a whooping total of ~2300 in 1944 on top of 1.1 million volunteers).

WW1 and WW2 are two times when the shit hit the fan for the entire world. Otherwise, our force is 100% voluntary.

myrrar · **Posted:** Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:44 pm

ignayshus wrote:

Quote:

Burden of proof lies with party making contention.

It's also integral to your position that other countries around the world don't have the same rate of mental illness, so since you're making the positive conclusion the burden is yours.

Quote:

This assumption is integral to psychology but it has scant basis in fact.

You mean aside from being statistically more likely than countless universities and scientists conspiring to pull the wool over everyone's eyes?

If it's a choice between lazy record keeping and grand conspiracy, I'm going with lazy record keeping.

Quote:

Your anecdote supports my reasoning which is that the incidence of psychological afflictions is variable based on cultural factors and not inevitable and immutable.

Or it supports the more logical conclusion that the Japanese don't like to talk about mental illness within their society.

I can actually vouch for that a little bit. During my time living in Japan, as well as studying the society and culture, it is DEFINITELY true that they value maintaining the appearance of the status quo and norm above most other things.
It can be very difficult to get them to admit something is wrong, because it often times is viewed more acceptable to create the facade of normality simply to make social interactions more streamlined.

Usdk · **Posted:** Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:47 pm

Maybe he should acknowledge that he's lumping in two completely different fields and hating on them both.

dek · **Posted:** Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:52 pm

ignayshus · **Posted:** Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:52 pm

Allow me to clarify the first part of my earlier three part response.

Aestu: Psychiatry is a sham. We didn't have these problems in the past and the rest of the world doesn't have these problems now.

Iggy: Actually we did have these problems in the past we just locked them away in asylums, prisons, orphanages, etc.

Aestu: Prove it. There are very few people we locked away for these kind of things.

Iggy: How are the records reliable to draw a conclusion on the rate of mental illness in a time where we didn't track it?

Aestu: You contend the records aren't reliable, so unless you prove otherwise, I'm right.

Iggy: You used the records as proof of the low rate of mental illness, you're making the contention, so you need to prove they are reliable for estimating the rate of mental illness.

Joklem · **Posted:** Thu Jan 13, 2011 3:56 pm

He's currently away, discussing with his counselors.

Baneleaf · **Posted:** Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:14 pm

There are crazy people in the world. Some of them go crazy and shoot people. Some of them seek help and are less crazy. Some of them either lock themselves up, or get locked up, and are allowed to be crazy without hurting others.

I think thats about it.

Oh yeah, and then there is Tom Cruise, who goes crazy on national TV and we think its funny.

dek · **Posted:** Thu Jan 13, 2011 4:37 pm

Baneleaf wrote:

Oh yeah, and then there is Tom Cruise, who goes crazy on national TV and we think its funny.

Tom Cruise also supports the theory that modern psychology is a sham.

Jubbergun · **Posted:** Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:35 pm

So Aestu is a scientologist now? Amazing.

Your Pal,
Jubber

mazeltov · **Posted:** Thu Jan 13, 2011 5:55 pm

When will people realize that Aestu knows next to nothing about science?

Jubbergun · **Posted:** Thu Jan 13, 2011 6:44 pm

I think your sentence was approximately two words too long, Maz.

J/K, just couldn't pass up the chance to make that joke.

Your Pal,
Jubber

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