Modern Psychology's a Sham.

Eturnalshift · **Posted:** Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:07 pm

No need to hide that it wasn't really a joke.

Really, it wasn't.

Yuratuhl · **Posted:** Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:27 pm

Jubbergun wrote:

So Aestu is a scientologist now? Amazing.

I was about to post this. Not that I think so little of him.

Usdk · **Posted:** Thu Jan 13, 2011 7:35 pm

He can't be a scientoloist, he worships Aestu, not Xenu

Aestu · **Posted:** Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:10 pm

ignayshus wrote:

Allow me to clarify the first part of my earlier three part response.

Aestu: Psychiatry is a sham. We didn't have these problems in the past and the rest of the world doesn't have these problems now.

Iggy: Actually we did have these problems in the past we just locked them away in asylums, prisons, orphanages, etc.

Aestu: Prove it. There are very few people we locked away for these kind of things.

Iggy: How are the records reliable to draw a conclusion on the rate of mental illness in a time where we didn't track it?

Aestu: You contend the records aren't reliable, so unless you prove otherwise, I'm right.

Iggy: You used the records as proof of the low rate of mental illness, you're making the contention, so you need to prove they are reliable for estimating the rate of mental illness.

If you are making the assertion the "record" should be taken on a less than prima facie basis then that is an assertion that you need to back up, just as you would need to back up the likewise baseless assertion that there were people unaccounted for.

Joklem wrote:

Blah blah blah. I'm not even from the same country as yours. Mine only ever conscripted during WW1 and WW2 (also, a whooping total of ~2300 in 1944 on top of 1.1 million volunteers).

WW1 and WW2 are two times when the shit hit the fan for the entire world. Otherwise, our force is 100% voluntary.

What country are you from?

Joklem wrote:

Psychiatry = a MD specialized in mental illness.
Psychology = the science of mind and behaviour.
Psychologist = a B.A. who applies findings from the field of psychology to therapies.

Also see: lobotomy, EST, and 1960s psychiatric medicine in general. These people don't have a crystal ball. In 50 years we'll be talking about how nothing they did today was of worth.

Go read about the medical practice in the Middle Ages. Quacks graduated from the University of Paris and were all officious about their doctorates and wrote long-winded essays about how disease was caused by humors and the alignment of celestial bodies. Your sig is incredibly ironic given the smallness of your vision that puts such value on worldly certifications when empirical experience suggests the facts are at odds with institutional claims.

Aestu · **Posted:** Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:20 pm

dek wrote:

Tom Cruise also supports the theory that modern psychology is a sham.

Hitler supports gun control.
Gun control is therefore a sham.

(this isn't a Godwin, it's the exact opposite, actually - pointing out that devaluing a line of reasoning by association is specious)

Yuratuhl · **Posted:** Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:24 pm

Joklem is Canadian.

Aestu · **Posted:** Thu Jan 13, 2011 8:29 pm

Yuratuhl wrote:

Joklem is Canadian.

America also has an all-volunteer army, and we only conscripted during the World Wars, plus Korea, Vietnam, and the Civil War. We also had a high rate of volunteering for the World Wars. But my point stands - the realities of military life reflect the weaknesses of character of the raw human material.

Joklem · **Posted:** Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:10 pm

Previous methods do not invalidate current methods.

In 50 years we might see current dentistry as barbarism, won't invalidate the new techniques.

Science. Learn. Unlearn. Relearn.

Jushiro · **Posted:** Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:17 pm

Am I missing something or have some of you been treating psychology as science

Aestu · **Posted:** Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:30 pm

Joklem wrote:

Previous methods do not invalidate current methods.

In 50 years we might see current dentistry as barbarism, won't invalidate the new techniques.

It's not the methods that are unscientific, it's the field itself, and its claims to be scientific because it wraps itself in pedagogy are proven specious by how wrong they've been in the past. It's not that they're developing better methods, they're just cycling through fads that reflect social bias.

Homosexuality used to be classified as a psychopathology. It wasn't the scientific method that changed the classification, it was social mores.

Joklem · **Posted:** Thu Jan 13, 2011 9:53 pm

Whoooooooosh.

Aestu · **Posted:** Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:10 pm

Joklem wrote:

Whoooooooosh.

Cognitive dissonance!

Usdk · **Posted:** Thu Jan 13, 2011 10:23 pm

I'm really not seeing any argument here. just a lot of foot stamping and "IM NOT LISTENING IM NOT LISTENING"

Battletard · **Posted:** Fri Jan 14, 2011 3:16 am

So I have bipolar disorder, and I am also a father..I've also been involved with NAMI (National Alliance for the Mentally Ill) and served on a Recovery and Steering Committee for a local mental health treatment organization.

You can't 'suck it up and get over' mental illness any more than you can suck it up and get over cancer.

It just doesn't work that way. Believe whatever fringe garbage you want, Aestu. The majority of the scientific and medical community (read: everyone who isn't a moron and is involved in the scientific and medical community) accepts the realities of mental illness as they are.

As convenient as it would be for me to just shove off the blame for my failures in life on 'bad parenting', I just can't do that. You don't know my parents, you dont know Jared Loughner's parents. You don't know what steps were being taken. Do you really and honestly believe you can attribute 'bad parenting' to something as widespread as mental illness? Do you seriously think it's that black and white?

I am the last person to play the mental illness card, when I fuck up, I take responsibility for it. I see it as no better than playing the race card in other circumstances. It only serves to delegitimize the real issues.

My guess is that you are butthurt because Mommy and Daddy had you see a shrink, and the shrink destroyed the image of perfection you've created for yourself by diagnosing you with something.

Poor parenting, indeed.

Aestu · **Posted:** Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:11 am

Battletard wrote:

So I have bipolar disorder, and I am also a father..I've also been involved with NAMI (National Alliance for the Mentally Ill) and served on a Recovery and Steering Committee for a local mental health treatment organization. You can't 'suck it up and get over' mental illness any more than you can suck it up and get over cancer.

Somehow I think if you were beaten hard enough, if the stakes were high enough - yes you would.

Battletard wrote:

St just doesn't work that way. Believe whatever fringe garbage you want, Aestu. The majority of the scientific and medical community (read: everyone who isn't a moron and is involved in the scientific and medical community) accepts the realities of mental illness as they are.

Cool, homosexuality is a pathology and what you really need for bipolar disorder is some insulin shock therapy and maybe a lobotomy. That's what the experts say!

Battletard wrote:

As convenient as it would be for me to just shove off the blame for my failures in life on 'bad parenting', I just can't do that. You don't know my parents, you dont know Jared Loughner's parents. You don't know what steps were being taken. Do you really and honestly believe you can attribute 'bad parenting' to something as widespread as mental illness? Do you seriously think it's that black and white?

I don't need to. These are human laws.

Battletard wrote:

S am the last person to play the mental illness card, when I fuck up, I take responsibility for it. I see it as no better than playing the race card in other circumstances. It only serves to delegitimize the real issues.

I know from personal experience with you that this is 100% untrue.

Battletard wrote:

My guess is that you are butthurt because Mommy and Daddy had you see a shrink, and the shrink destroyed the image of perfection you've created for yourself by diagnosing you with something.

Poor parenting, indeed.

Half correct. Does that make my point of view less valid than the PhD clinging to his piece of paper like the Scarecrow in "The Wizard of Oz" or the outcast that clings to a label rather than better himself?

Striving for self-betterment is not futile merely because we can never be perfect. People who refuse that challenge are sub-human.

Bucket Guild | FUBU BH Forums

Modern Psychology's a Sham.

Who is online