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Your claim was that you sleep with one eye open, so to speak, and you are ready to quick-draw at any suspicious noise. Now, if an "intruder" has the drop on you and you take the time to, in addition to reaching for your weapon, assess his identity, in that time he will shoot you dead. This is especially true given the limits of a waking human's responsiveness and mental reliability.

Any gunfight boils down to who shoots first and that in turn typically boils down to who has the lowest threshold to fire.

Besides that, if you think as you claim, believing that to be mere common sense, then what criminals will do (and this happens already) is yell, "OMFG POLICE GET DOWN" and THEN shoot you dead.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

A suspicious noise in my house (which I know pretty well) isn't the same as a SWAT team kicking down my door yelling that they're the police and they have a search warrant. In one situation, the intruder is trying to be silent so they're not found. In the other, the police are being loud so their presence is known. In both situations, I'm sure I would grab my weapon, but I feel that I'd go seeking the silent intruder and quietly wait for the police to enter my room. (My room is approx. 30ft from the front door, and much further from other entry points, so it'd take them longer than a couple seconds to make it back there, especially since they have to clear each room down the hallway leading to mine.) They know I have weapons (because they're registered) so I'd set the weapon an arms reach away, with my hands up. (When you're dealing with police you don't want to appear threatening because they're trained to shoot if they're threatened.) If the person who comes through the door doesn't appear to be the police then I reach down and hip-fire, hoping I've got the jump. If I strike an officer then I'm most likely going to have some holes poked in me. Granted, the people breaking into my house could be dressed in giant Kevlar suits with a short-barrel Benelli M1s but not actually be police officers... and in that case, I'd pretty much be fucked. Anyone would be. GG to them?

I'd like to think I know my house pretty well and I know the sounds it makes better than any police officer or criminal. I also know my abilities with my weapons and I know I can quickly identify if there is someone in my house that shouldn't be there. Although I haven't been in the situation before, I've had training (on both sides) to handle myself in this situation. I'm pretty sure I'm more qualified to speak to my abilities than you are.

You are not Rambo. You don't have infallible, always-on tactical abilities. If you did, you'd probably be engaged in that line of work.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

A noise in your house is not the same as a noise waking you up from a dead sleep. If the cops decide to raid your house at 5 p.m. then yes, you would probably act correctly. To assume that everyone who was awoken to the sound of shouting and someone kicking in their door would be able to react with proper judgement is foolish, and it does not excuse what happened.

Dvergar /
Quisling

1) Analyze possibility of threat
2) Finger off the trigger, safety on, weapon not pointed in a clear line as to not appear threatening
3) Clearly threatening incoming stimuli, safety off
4) Point weapon, aim through sights, finger in trigger ring, warn
5) Apply pressure if needed

I think one of the main differences between people that buy guns for self-defense and people that don't is that the people that don't stopped pretending to be a GI Joe years ago.

RETIRED.
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Mayonaise[/armory]
[armory loc="US,Bleeding Hollow"]Jerkonaise[/armory]

No one suggested that I was Rambo, Aestu. I said I was confident in my abilities when it comes to identifying threats and wielding weapons. I've had some training to be on both sides of that officers gun. (Not serving no-knock warrants, but breeching and clearing buildings is pretty much the same thing they were doing.)

And your last sentence is stupid - Because you like reading does that mean you're probably going to be a librarian or a used book seller?

Aren't you the guy that's afraid of guns yet you've never fired one before? Are you really qualified to make sweeping generalizations about people you have no understanding of? No, of course not. No go back to hiding from threads where you've had your ass handed to you.

So before this thread turns into aestu questioning the minutiae of eturnal's personal gun control methods.

The report says it was at 10pm. most criminals aren't in bed that early. if you're hearing shit like "Police!" and "Search Warrant!" and "Get on the ground!" then you probably should hit the ground.

That said, the guy was a career criminal, and while i don't advocate people getting shot when they don't need to be shot(and i'm not sure this guy deserved it for standing in a door with a golf club) but I'm not going to shed any tears over it, and neither will any of you.

He was an addict, he wasn't hurting anyone but himself until the cops shot him. Really though, the poor planning and decision to raid a house they knew didn't contain the person they really wanted, the ones in charge of those should be prosecuted.

Dvergar /
Quisling

When in the slightest doubt, it is usually best not to propel lead through flesh at high velocities.

Some possible doubts:
The threat is armed with a golf club.

according to the report i read, there was a lot of traffic in and out of his house.

to me that signals dealer, in addition to or perhaps instead of addict. I'm sure they had the right house.

I'm fairly sure that the punishment for the sale of illegal substances isn't death. I'm also pretty sure that this wasn't a trial.

The punishment for non-lethal aggression isn't death, either.

There's nothing justified about this, whatsoever. Actually there is, human mistake by the cop. But he won't admit that.

Or human mistake by the addict by rushing into a room where cops are yelling, "Police" and "Search Warrant" with a large golf club ready to be swung. He won't admit he was wrong, either. (o lol)

Like I said earlier - both sides could've handled this differently.

Here's the thing...was he an immediate threat? Did they have to shoot him in order to save the lives of an innocent civilian or another officer? The answer is simply: no.

He had a golf club raised above his head, but was in a hallway, clearly out of range of any officer. He was not charging the door, and did not charge any officer. Also, considering they all had helmets/riot gear on, could the guy have straight up killed one of the officers?

The thing is, they didn't say "drop your weapon" they didn't even shoot him to wound or disarm. They put 3 bullets in him, 2 in the chest, and 1 in the fucking head. Meth addict or no, as a citizen, it scares the hell out of me that I could be killed in such a way by officers and they could get away with it.

If you watch the video -- isn't it ironic/ridicukous how one cop says "get on the ground" after the guy was clearly dead? Perhaps it shows the amount of confusion, and lack of proper police procedure that was in effect during this raid.

It's funny, a lot of the people here defending the cops actions also probably are big fans of "the right to bear arms." The whole idea behind that is that citizens should be able to defend themselves, and their property....ESPECIALLY from the government (that whole constitutional law was made because when America was founded, it was on the backs of militias...average citizens 'bearing arms' and resisting a government - England - that they felt was ruling unjustly). Here's a citizen who may or may not have heard/understood that it was cops...all he knew was that his place was getting broken into. He didn't grab a gun, he grabbed a fucking golf club, wasn't swinging it - yet was shot on sight.

I don't see how this is anything but murder.