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Pretty sure he is only referring to heroic mode for the said classes. But I think is something like

Disc priest = lol @ infest
warlocks = Frostmourne room ghosts go boom/and also warlocks can be dropped off ledge and teleport back up.
Paladins = well, they are paladins/they also righteous fury tank the Valks once they fly up.
hunters = tranq enrage shamblings

you aren't commenting on it being hard, you're commenting on it being interesting.

and for that, i see your point. difficulty scales, but interest does not.

a perfect example is naxxramas. in vanilla, it was probably the most *difficult* stuff they'd put in the game to date. not because the fight mechanics were difficult to master, but simply because existing gear did not scale to match some of the encounters very well.

loatheb was not really possible without riding your raid around the entire world and collecting every +stam and +dmg buff you could find. i guess that's interesting in a sense that you have to go outside the instance to affect the ability to perform inside, but it was more tedious.

going back to naxx now... most of the fights are pretty much the same (some are nerfed a little bit in complexity, but generally they are true to their original form). now that it's not difficult, it's actually quite a boring instance.

that's not to say there aren't some fights more interesting than others. i always liked thaddius.



the lich king is more interesting than the fights in naxx, but as an encounter it barely stands out, and isn't even the most epic fight in the instance (which is prob putricide).

Akina: bitch I will stab you in the face

I've had both good and bad sex...the difference was totally the female. Anyway, I still compare LK to bad sex.



Please do, because as we all know...and I'll be the first to admit it, I'm absolutely terrible. ;p


In all seriousness, I just said that because a little while ago I entered a pug with you, and you called me "priest" (I forget what context...I think you wanted me to get in a specific vehicle for FL or something, but there was malice in it) which is a bit of an insult considering you knew exactly who I was.

But that's neither here nor there because everyone i've talked to has informed me that you are just a dick in general, so I shouldn't take it personally.

Bingo. I'm well aware that with a 20% buff, and everyone in 264 icc 25m gear, it's just a matter of facerolling and not fucking up defiles. That being said, the fight itself just wasn't what i'd hoped...didn't have that "epic" factor.

I'll agree with putricide definitely being the most epic. Really, I think Ulduar captured that "epic" feel the most out of any instance so far in WotlK. So many fights in that instance were challenging (at the time of release), but also just genuinely unique/interesting. Difficulty doesn't make the game fun for me (it adds a challenge yes, which is exciting when you overcome it), the fun comes from doing things that are different and unique...IE "epic"

If i called you priest, it was because i looked at my grid(which on my rogue is scaled quite small and only there for a few things), saw a white square that shoulda been green. If it was Ulduar it was because i wanted to get it over with asap. If people think I'm a dick oh well? Opinions vary. Sure there are plenty that don't think so.

You need two hunters to MD and tranq the shamblers and Raging Spirits, and also to manage the Frost Orbs, which have substantially more HP on heroic. There will sometimes be two shambers up at once depending on how the disease jumps, and a single swing from a Shambler while enraged will oneshot any tank even with the 20% buff.

You need four paladins for Infest. Infest hits hard enough on 25 heroic that for each and every one, a raidwide defensive cooldown must be active, which in practice means only Aura Mastery or Divine Guardian will fit the bill. Without that extra mitigation or healing, people will die. In addition, you must have dispellers for the Raging Spirits because the positioning and speed of the spawns and how much HP they have constrict tanks from moving so they can use melee abilities, and the silence must be very quickly removed during the ledge phase as well as during Defile phase as the LK is taunted back and forth between tanks while Raging Spirits are still up. A healer cannot dispel given how busy they are healing the other damage at this time. There are three Valks and they must all be stunned once every 30 seconds, and there is really no substitute for HoJ's duration or ease of application. All three Valks must also be Holy Wrathed immediately after they start moving so the stuns will be off DR by the time they reach the ledge, so they can be stunned again one final time.

You need a disc priest for Infest, and also for an external tank cooldown for Soul Reapers. Shield Wall will not be off cooldown fast enough and lesser cooldowns are not sufficient.

Warlocks' ability to leave the valks is very powerful. Having to kill two and not three valks not only dramatically improves the chance that more players will survive, it also makes Defile more manageable as players aren't constricted in their mobility by having to be burning the valks when Defile comes off cooldown.

You need a Desecrate-specced DK because Frost Trap is not as flexible an aoe snare.

Part of what makes an encounter interesting - pertaining to both LK and Yogg - is how many different elements both encounters have. They are very strategy intensive, and there's a great deal of subtlety involved. It's Kael-like in that there's many, many ways to fail, and it's very unforgiving.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Yogg-Saron is the best (read: most fun) PvE encounter to date. Also, I've done Firefighter as progression and it wasn't as fun as even normal mode Yogg, much less One Light.

In case it wasn't totally obvious, I loved Ulduar and nothing since (or before, not that I raided at all in TBC and Vanilla was kind of laughable) has come close.

If destruction exists, we must destroy everything.
Shuruppak Yuratuhl
Slaad Shrpk Breizh

It really isn't. RNG, which plays a huge chunk regarding valks and tank deaths, is always stupid. Apeshit damage/healing requirements are arguable, but have never impressed me as far as difficulty, because brute forcing is stupid.

It's a hard fight, and it's better then everything else in Wrath, save for Firefighter progression, and probably Yogg, but it's miles away from being the hardest encounter in this game in terms of when bosses were progression.



no.

ulduar does seem like a great dungeon, i will admit. i've done up to mimiron but i've never taken the time to finish it. i could agree that in total, it was probably blizzard's best raid dungeon so far.

and yogg seems like a fun fight. i'll probably get around to doing it at some point... i still need to go back and do half of the TBC raids as well since i was pvping back then.

Akina: bitch I will stab you in the face

It's okay, Ulduar is the best raid instance Blizzard has made so far, anyways.

Cindered
Another Cindered

A penny put in a jar is a penny not put in my nose.

I keep it second to Vanilla Naxx :[

It's not RNG or the limits on numerical output that's letting the best guilds kill it at 5% or 10% while everyone else will probably continue to wipe on an encounter that's completely doable for months and months.

It's just that hard.

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.

Nobody downed the original 4HM for ~7 weeks.

At this point it isn't RNG due to the buff, I concede that.

But no, it isn't that hard. The only thing stopping people now is attendance, or just random fuckups. There's a multitude of more difficult encounters.



Nobody knew what to do. It was hard yes, but the hardest part was finding a working strat that worked for your raid group. Once you figured out who was going to what group and when, it was just a merry-go-round for 17 minutes and praying someone didn't mess up.

Attendance and random fuckups are never a brick wall for months.

If people don't want to show, or fail at it, it's because it's hard.

What would be harder encounters? Prenerf Firefighter/Yogg Zero/Vashj?

Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.