Bucket Guild | FUBU BH Forums

I Has a Bucket: Preventing bucket theft on Bleeding Hollow | FUBU: A better BH Forum
It is currently Sun Apr 20, 2025 2:38 pm



Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 130 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:20 pm  
User avatar

Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:19 pm
Posts: 8116
Offline

dek wrote:
there are a number of fights like that though. lich king just has the juice turned up on those elements a bit perhaps, but not unique in that design aspect.

hell, the very first raid boss (lucifron) had periods of frantic, encounter-hinging dispelling, offtanks that could easily die and movement. a lot less of it, but the design isn't new.


Lucifron and heroic LK are not comparable.

You had said to Henq that his opinion on the challenges of heroic Deathwhisper-25 was uninformed and invalid because he had not seen or done it, and in the same way, I feel justified in saying that you are not in a position to draw the parallel you are.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 7:06 pm  
User avatar

Tasty Tourist
Joined: Sat May 22, 2010 2:26 pm
Posts: 20
Offline

if that's the case then grim wins by default because he's done even more encounters when they meant something than me.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 10:13 pm  
User avatar

Fat Bottomed Faggot
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:53 pm
Posts: 4251
Location: Minnesota
Offline

Usdk wrote:
best instance yet is deadmines.


BRD unless you get lost.


"Ok we aren't such things and birds are pretty advanced. They fly and shit from anywhere they want. While we sit on our automatic toilets, they're shitting on people and my car while a cool breeze tickles their anus. That's the life."
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:24 am  
User avatar

Stupid Schlemiel
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:39 pm
Posts: 1942
Location: California
Offline

Weena wrote:
Usdk wrote:
best instance yet is deadmines.


BRD unless you get lost.


Heroic Mech because +/-


A man chooses, a slave obeys.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:15 am  
User avatar

Deliciously Trashy
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 7:37 pm
Posts: 2695
Location: Seattle
Offline

Weena wrote:
Usdk wrote:
best instance yet is deadmines.


BRD unless you get lost.


BRD is scary :(


Image
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:39 am  
Tasty Tourist
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 1:10 pm
Posts: 75
Offline

Tortured Slave moans.


me
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:17 pm  
User avatar

Pinheaded Pissant
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:29 pm
Posts: 1515
Location: Boston, MA
Offline

Aestu wrote:
dek wrote:
there are a number of fights like that though. lich king just has the juice turned up on those elements a bit perhaps, but not unique in that design aspect.

hell, the very first raid boss (lucifron) had periods of frantic, encounter-hinging dispelling, offtanks that could easily die and movement. a lot less of it, but the design isn't new.


Lucifron and heroic LK are not comparable.

You had said to Henq that his opinion on the challenges of heroic Deathwhisper-25 was uninformed and invalid because he had not seen or done it, and in the same way, I feel justified in saying that you are not in a position to draw the parallel you are.


i'm not drawing a parallel of difficulty (which you are talking about), i'm drawing a parallel of game mechanics.

dispelling. offtanking. moving as a group. these mechanics are core to blizzard boss design and as old as they come.

and if i'm not mistaken, didn't you start the game during TBC? you never experienced lucifron as progression. it wasn't an easy fight, because people were at best in D1 sets, the UI barely supported raiding at all at that point (there were no core raid frames, and the addons available were spartan at best), and the game itself barely supported raiding (a lot of abilities were limited to your group only, couldn't be cast across raid groups).

i'm certain lich king is a more difficult implementation of those mechanics, but the mechanics are directly comparable. having x number of seconds to dispel someone or they die is literally the oldest boss mechanic in the book.

edit: and i'd add as a tangent, lucifron shows exactly why i detest when people claim that blizzard should ban all boss mods and make us play the encounters how they were intended, etc. the fight was not difficult because it was overly complex, it was mostly difficult because blizzard's UI sucked donkey balls at the time.


Image

Akina: bitch I will stab you in the face
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:26 pm  
User avatar

Tasty Tourist
Joined: Sat May 22, 2010 2:26 pm
Posts: 20
Offline

oh man i loved buffing 40 people with kings and then cleansing once or twice before buffing again.

lol fucking cosmos ui *rose tinted glasses*
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:08 pm  
User avatar

Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:19 pm
Posts: 8116
Offline

Saying that because decurses have been around since MC, it's all a big rehash, is like arguing that nothing new has ever been written since Shakespeare because it's English all the same. The content is what Blizzard does with the medium and structure of the game.

I did MC on my warlock at 60. The detonation of the curse was about half a blue geared level 60's health pool. Failing to decurse it was not lethal. Those adds are tauntable. Tanking them was as simple as walking up to them and whacking them.

A curse, that you may not have to dispel, within a large margin, that ignores positioning, is not comparable to a dot that has to be dispelled within a two second window with respect to the positioning of the player and the mob or the person dies, and the loss of the stack will probably cause a raid-wiping shambler spawn, or even worse cause the dot to jump around the raid.

H LK25 is INCOMPARABLY harder: that now, with a level playing field, with gear normalized, with no attunement, with highly optimized UIs that are downloadable, with cheap consumables, and with a far larger and dramatically more experienced, playerbase, even with all that less than 100 guilds have completed the encounter worldwide.

Many of those same players who talk about how hard that shit was did that, but they can't do this or even nearly.

I reiterate:

Quote:
You had said to Henq that his opinion on the challenges of heroic Deathwhisper-25 was uninformed and invalid because he had not seen or done it, and in the same way, I feel justified in saying that you are not in a position to draw the parallel you are.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:50 pm  
User avatar

Obtuse Oaf
Joined: Tue May 18, 2010 3:57 pm
Posts: 838
Location: San Antonio, Texas.
Offline

I'm just waiting for LK to hit 30% buff and hear all the new drama.


Image
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:58 pm  
User avatar

Kunckleheaded Knob
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 8:30 pm
Posts: 319
Location: NH
Offline

Quote:
dot that has to be dispelled within a two second window with respect to the positioning of the player and the mob or the person dies


Just count to 4 and dispel... the guy will be where he needs to be, or he's terrible and you have to repeat it.

The "hard factor" of most of these end encounters is pumping out butt tons of DMG while not fucking up simple tasks. If you pay attention to your timers / don't stand in fire(and stand on the "smart guy" for mobile fights) it comes down to DMG.

So far every HM I've seen has basically been do more dmg and healing than normal mode and maby avoid an extra already seen in game mechanic and your fine.


Other topic

Lady Vashj is my most favorite fight ever to heal(never got to dps or tank it) Lightning Rod pally tanking ftw!


Çhubathingy - Shaman - Royal Militia
Hoenhiem - Paladin - Royal Militia
Contact: Bnet= nurindun#1138 / twitter / twitch
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:02 pm  
User avatar

Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:19 pm
Posts: 8116
Offline

DoubleH wrote:
Quote:
dot that has to be dispelled within a two second window with respect to the positioning of the player and the mob or the person dies


Just count to 4 and dispel... the guy will be where he needs to be, or he's terrible and you have to repeat it.

The "hard factor" of most of these end encounters is pumping out butt tons of DMG while not fucking up simple tasks. If you pay attention to your timers / don't stand in fire(and stand on the "smart guy" for mobile fights) it comes down to DMG.

So far every HM I've seen has basically been do more dmg and healing than normal mode and maby avoid an extra already seen in game mechanic and your fine.
!


If this were true, there would be more than 80-odd guilds in the world that are 11/12HM. That is not the case, because it isn't; and the encounter is not just that simple at all.


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:18 pm  
User avatar

Kunckleheaded Knob
Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 8:30 pm
Posts: 319
Location: NH
Offline

ok so LK has 3 "new" ability's you've got your shadow traps(AKA fire), you've got valks flying around sucking the life out of people when they are sub50%, and you have harvest souls(instead of soul) inside of witch the whole raid needs to not be hit by duders falling from the sky(dodge/kill them).

TBH the "hard" part of that sounds to me like:

1) do 3+x as much dmg to valks before they die(read do more dmg)
2) heal the entire raid through harvest souls(read do more healing)
3) continue to not stand on shit you shouldn't be standing on(read OMG FIRE BURNS)


Çhubathingy - Shaman - Royal Militia
Hoenhiem - Paladin - Royal Militia
Contact: Bnet= nurindun#1138 / twitter / twitch
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:23 pm  
User avatar

Feckless Fool
Joined: Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:57 am
Posts: 1455
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana
Offline

Aestu wrote:
DoubleH wrote:
Quote:
dot that has to be dispelled within a two second window with respect to the positioning of the player and the mob or the person dies


Just count to 4 and dispel... the guy will be where he needs to be, or he's terrible and you have to repeat it.

The "hard factor" of most of these end encounters is pumping out butt tons of DMG while not fucking up simple tasks. If you pay attention to your timers / don't stand in fire(and stand on the "smart guy" for mobile fights) it comes down to DMG.

So far every HM I've seen has basically been do more dmg and healing than normal mode and maby avoid an extra already seen in game mechanic and your fine.
!


If this were true, there would be more than 80-odd guilds in the world that are 11/12HM. That is not the case, because it isn't; and the encounter is not just that simple at all.


It isn't simple, but for the majority of people who made/are still making progress on this, they don't die because "OMG THAT WAS SO COMPLEX WE SHOULD REWRITE OUR STRAT". They die because their tank exploded, the wrong people got grabbed by valks, they didn't do enough damage to valks (which at this point shouldn't really be happening unless your stunners go AFK), or they explode in the frostmourne room. It has nothing to do with complexity, it's pure numbers. Some of that comes down to carrying bads, which every guild other then the top 50 or so is always going to have to do, or simply because people didn't mash their buttons correctly.

Strategically this fight is nothing spectacular, and it never was. The only reason it didn't die at 0% was because nobody could kill the valks. The only reason it didn't die more at 5% was because most people couldn't kill the valks. The only reason higher guilds are saying "OMG HARDEST BOSS EVER" is because surprise, they do it on every world 1-5 kill. The only people who didn't follow that retarded e-peen flexing trend was Stars.
Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:30 pm  
User avatar

Querulous Quidnunc
Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 12:19 pm
Posts: 8116
Offline

It is a mathematical possibility for RNG to hold thousands of guilds from a kill after HUNDREDS of attempts each. If it were total RNG, any given guild would eventually get a good toss of the dice.

Also, if it's RNG or overwhelming numbers at work, then why is it the best guilds that have won, with the same raid comps and same gear, with the same number of attempts, and with known strategies, and have repeated it time and again?

What % have you gotten him to, anyway?


Aestu of Bleeding Hollow...

Nihilism is a copout.
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 130 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron

World of Warcraft phpBB template "WoWMoonclaw" created by MAËVAH (ex-MOONCLAW) (v3.0.8.0) - wowcr.net : World of Warcraft styles & videos
© World of Warcraft and Blizzard Entertainment are trademarks or registered trademarks of Blizzard Entertainment, Inc. in the U.S. and/or other countries. wowcr.net is in no way associated with Blizzard Entertainment.
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group